In this episode of This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert dig into OpenAI’s very rough week. From missed targets and questions about future contract payments to legal proceedings involving Elon Musk, the company suddenly looks a lot less inevitable than it did just a few months ago.

Then OpenAI launches a self-service advertising platform, which leads Joe to ask the big question: Is ChatGPT turning into Yahoo? Robert sees it a little differently, arguing that the better comparison may be Netscape. Either way, the boys agree that OpenAI may be trying to do too many things at once while Anthropic continues to gain ground.

Next, Joe and Robert discuss Coinbase and its latest round of layoffs. The company says AI is part of the reason, but is that the real story, or just a convenient excuse? They also look at the strong performance from Uber and Disney, and what it may say about the rise of local and regional experiences in today’s service economy.

In Marketing Winners and Losers, Heineken gets attention, and the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District makes another appearance as a surprisingly effective content and social media operator.

In Rants and Raves, Joe honors Ted Turner and his incredible impact on marketing, media and publishing. Robert closes with a rant about the California governor’s race and what it says about media, politics and the state of public discourse.

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, Joe and Robert break down a Wall Street Journal article about big brands putting more money into individual creators.

While micro-influencers continue to be an important trend, the boys believe there may be an even bigger opportunity sitting inside most companies: employees. If brands want trusted voices, they should not only rent them from the outside. They should invest in their own internal talent and help employees become trusted experts, creators, and community builders.

In other news, Taylor Swift has filed new trademark applications, including sound marks, to help protect her voice and likeness from unauthorized AI usage. Joe and Robert ask whether brands should be thinking about similar protections as AI-generated content becomes easier to create and harder to control.

Marketing Winners and Losers

Robert’s winner is Taco Bell for its big NFL Draft moment involving first-round pick Fernando Mendoza.

Joe’s winner is Anthropic for hiring an events director, a signal that even AI companies understand the power of in-person experiences, brand trust, and human connection.

Rants and Raves

Robert rants about Nike’s controversial Boston Marathon advertisement and what happens when edgy creative misses the moment.

Joe’s commentary focuses on prediction markets and the marketing opportunities that may be coming, but have not fully arrived yet.

This Week’s Takeaway

Brands are waking up to the power of individual creators. But the smartest companies may realize that some of their best creators are already on the payroll.

Other links: Are NFT's Back?

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

In this special episode of This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert step away from marketing and talk about something more personal: the health changes they’ve made, why they made them, and what they’ve learned along the way. Both share the specific moments that pushed them to take their health more seriously, along with the physical, mental, and long-term brain health concerns that made those decisions impossible to ignore.

Joe walks through the habits and strategies that have shaped his approach, including intermittent fasting, creatine, resistance training, and reducing negative social media exposure. Robert then shares his experience with GLP-1s, what the process has been like in practice, and how it has affected the way he thinks about weight, health, energy, and the future.

This is an honest conversation about getting older, paying attention, and trying to make smarter choices for the years ahead.

Disclaimer:
This episode is based entirely on Joe and Robert’s personal experiences and should not be taken as medical advice. Everyone’s body, health history, and needs are different. Please do your own research and consult a qualified medical professional before making any health-related changes.

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Joe and Robert dig into Anthropic’s launch of Mythos and Project Glasswing and ask the bigger question: is this the moment marketers need to wake up to the fact that AI is not just a tool shift, but a business model shift? Joe argues this may be AI’s Napster moment, the point where the future is suddenly visible and the old rules no longer apply.

They also discuss the attack on Sam Altman’s house and what it says about the growing anti-AI backlash. As fear, frustration, and economic anxiety build, what does the AI industry need to understand before resistance gets louder and more dangerous?

Finally, HubSpot makes headlines with its media acquisition, but the bigger conversation is the company’s decision to rename its flagship event from Inbound to Unbound. Joe and Robert both believe the move is a mistake and break down why consistency, memory, and brand equity matter more than clever repositioning.

In this episode:

• Anthropic launches Mythos and Project Glasswing
• Why Joe calls this the Napster moment for AI
• What marketers need to do now as the model changes
• The Sam Altman attacks and the rise of anti-AI anger
• What AI companies are missing about public frustration
• HubSpot’s media move
• Why changing Inbound to Unbound may be a branding error
• The value of consistency in event strategy

Winners and Losers/Rants and Raves

• Joe’s Winner: A gas station that turned into a speakeasy
• Joe’s Rave: The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
• Robert’s Loser: DoorDash
• Robert’s Commentary: The four categories of AI perception (inspired from this article)

Closing Thought:
The old marketing playbook is getting shaky fast. The question is no longer whether AI will change the rules. The question is whether marketers are willing to admit the rules have already changed.

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

What would Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose do if they had to build a media company from scratch in 2026?

In this special episode of This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert tackle that exact question. Starting with zero audience, limited resources, and a media landscape flooded with AI-generated content, shifting algorithms, and declining trust, they break down what kind of media company they would actually build today.

Would they start with a newsletter, a podcast, YouTube, or LinkedIn? What niche would they choose? How would they make money in the first 12 months? And in a world where content is cheap and everywhere, what would make the business truly defensible?

Throughout the episode, Joe and Robert walk through the key questions any modern media entrepreneur should ask:

• Who is the specific audience?
• What problem are they solving?
• Which platform should come first?
• What content tilt or point of view is unique enough to stand out?
• What business model makes the most sense early?
• What should be avoided completely?
• And what creates a moat when AI can produce endless content?

This is part strategy session, part debate, and part reality check for anyone thinking about launching a media brand today. If you were starting over in 2026, this episode will help you think through what to build, what to ignore, and where the biggest opportunities still are.

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Anthropic may or may not have “accidentally” leaked its code, but Joe and Robert think the bigger story is what the company’s newest release says about the future of white-collar work and marketing itself. They also tackle the slowing labor market, whether marketing jobs are in danger, and if a recession is actually coming. Rounding out the episode: Cameo’s TikTok partnership, Oracle’s ugly layoffs, Search Engine Journal’s ad-free decision, and two documentary picks worth your time.

Full Episode Notes

This Old Marketing: Anthropic Leaks, Job Market Freezes, and Cameo’s Last Cameo?

Joe and Robert kick off the show with the strange case of Anthropic’s code leaking into public view. Was it a true accident, or one of the smartest marketing plays we’ve seen in a while? Either way, it got the market’s attention.

Staying with Anthropic, the hosts dig into the company’s latest release and what it means Openclaw. With everyone suddenly convinced that Claude can replace all sorts of white-collar work, Joe and Robert ask the question marketers should actually care about: what does this mean for marketing teams, creative work, and knowledge workers trying to stay relevant?

Next, the conversation turns to the slowing U.S. labor market. Hiring continues to soften, but layoffs remain relatively low. So what are we really looking at here? A recession in the making, or simply an economic deep freeze? And more specifically, should marketers be worried about their jobs, or just ready for a very different kind of employment market?

Later in the show, Joe and Robert look at Cameo’s new partnership with TikTok. Is this a smart move that gives Cameo fresh life and relevance, or is it another sign that the business is nearing the end of its useful run?

Then it’s time for Winners and Losers. Robert names Oracle his loser of the week after the company fired thousands of employees in what he sees as a tone-deaf and tasteless move. Joe picks Search Engine Journal as his winner for making the rare decision to remove all programmatic advertising from its site.

To close, both hosts share their Rants and Raves. Joe recommends Man on the Run, the Paul McCartney documentary. Robert highlights Louis Theroux’s new documentary, The Manosphere.

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, Joe opens the show with a quick take on the banning of “AI Fruit Love Island” and can’t believe Robert isn’t already a loyal subscriber.

Joe and Robert then dig into a landmark legal verdict against social media platforms, focusing on Meta’s Instagram and Google’s YouTube. The big shift? Instead of the usual failed arguments around Section 230, these new cases are targeting platform design itself, claiming the products were intentionally built to be addictive. Joe and Robert discuss whether this could become a true “big tobacco” moment for social media, with larger legal and financial consequences ahead.

Next up, OpenAI shuts down Sora after the Disney deal. Is this a warning sign for OpenAI’s long-term strategy, or just a simple business decision to cut a product that wasn’t generating revenue and was draining resources? Joe and Robert break it down. Plus, OpenAI hires a new ad chief (which is always a good sign, right?).

Finally, TikTok rolls out new video advertising programs at NewFronts, and Joe and Robert see it as more evidence of a race to the bottom in digital media.

Marketing Losers of the Week
Robert looks at the Publicis versus The Trade Desk battle.
Joe calls out Apple for confirming that ads are coming to Apple Maps.

Rants and Raves
Robert shares thoughts on courts temporarily allowing Perplexity AI shopping agents on Amazon.
Joe raves about the greatness of Rick Rubin and why his approach may tell us something important about the AI future.

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

A new piece from the Wall Street Journal introduces the idea of being “alternatively influential”…people who drive real impact without massive follower counts.

Joe and Robert break it down:

• Is this just a rebrand of “niche creator” or “thought leader”?

• Or is it actually the future of influence in an AI-saturated world?

• And most importantly…does audience size matter less than trust, proximity, and credibility?

The bigger question: Are we entering an era where being known by the right people beats being known by everyone?

AI Isn’t Just Helping…It Might Be Hurting

A new Morning Brew piece highlights research showing that AI can actually decrease focus and increase mental fatigue when overused.

Key findings:

• Productivity rises with 1–3 AI tools…then drops off after that

• Workers report “mental overload” and decision fatigue

• Time saved gets filled with more work, not better work

Joe and Robert’s take:

• This isn’t really about AI

• It’s about multitasking overload

• AI just accelerates a problem we already had

Bottom line: More tools ≠ better thinking
Focus is still the competitive advantage

Substack Goes Full Stack (Again)

Substack continues expanding its platform, now rolling out a recording studio feature to support video and podcast creation.

The discussion:

• Substack is no longer “just newsletters”

• It’s becoming a complete creator operating system

• Email platforms, podcast hosts, and even YouTube should be paying attention

The real question: Does Substack become the home base for creators…or just another tool in the stack?

Winners and Losers

Marketing Winner: Calvin Klein

• Dakota Johnson’s new campaign hits the mark

• Clean, simple, effective brand storytelling that cuts through the noise

Marketing Loser: The Oscars

• Still struggling to stay culturally relevant

• A branding problem, not just a ratings problem

Marketing Loser (Joe): World Baseball Classic Timing

• Great product…questionable timing

• Hard to build momentum when the schedule works against you

Rants and Raves

Joe’s Rant: Why Team USA Lost to Venezuela

Joe’s hot take:

• It wasn’t about effort

• It was about constraints

Team USA had:

• Contracts

• Pitch limits

• Usage concerns

• Calls from MLB teams

Meanwhile, Venezuela had:

• Fewer restrictions

• More freedom to just play

The lesson: The team with less to manage often performs better

Robert’s Rave: Where AI Actually Gets Its Content

Robert highlights a new piece on AI sourcing:

• AI doesn’t create from nothing

• It builds on existing human work

• The real leverage is still in original thinking and creation 
  
  

Other links: Mel Robbins with Seth Godin

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose dig into fascinating new research from Anthropic that reveals how large language models are already capable of executing many traditional marketing tasks. The conversation quickly turns into a deeper question. Is the real disruption AI itself, or the fact that many leaders in mid-size and enterprise organizations never truly valued marketing in the first place? If machines can now execute the tactics, what happens to marketing teams that were already fighting for credibility inside their organizations?

The discussion explores what the research means for the future of marketing roles, how AI will reshape tactical execution, and whether strategy, creativity, and trust-building become the true competitive advantages. As usual, Joe and Robert have plenty of opinions and a few laughs along the way.

In other news, Meta makes another big move by acquiring Moltbook. Is this a calculated, low-risk gamble from the tech giant, or does the move signal growing pressure in the AI platform race?

Meanwhile, LinkedIn content is increasingly appearing in responses from AI chatbots and generative search tools. Joe and Robert discuss what this shift means for marketers and content creators trying to remain visible as discovery moves away from traditional search engines.

Winners and Losers

Winner #1:
Tecovas: A clever follow-up short film connected to a Super Bowl ad campaign shows how brands can extend the life of expensive tentpole advertising.

Winner #2:
Coinbase launches its new “NPC Break-Free” campaign that will run during the Academy Awards, taking a bold creative swing at culture, conformity, and crypto skepticism.

Rants and Raves

Robert dives into BlackRock and the fallout surrounding its private credit strategy, raising questions about risk and transparency.

Joe closes the show with a rant about a stunning operational blunder by United States national baseball team during the World Baseball Classic.

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

It was a wild week in artificial intelligence. Joe and Robert break down a surprising stumble from OpenAI and the aggressive counter-moves coming from Anthropic. The hosts unpack what these developments signal for the broader AI landscape and why the growing concentration of power among a small number of platforms should concern marketers and creators alike. If a handful of companies ultimately control how AI works and how it distributes information, that likely tells us exactly where marketing is headed as well.

Along the way, Joe and Robert offer a few friendly suggestions to Sam Altman on how he might rethink his public communication strategy during moments of controversy and rapid change.

Next, the show shifts to a supposed social media “problem” involving the CEO of McDonald's on Instagram. Except… it wasn’t really a problem at all. Joe and Robert argue the episode was actually a major brand win. The bigger lesson? Companies should stop hiding their quirky, weird, and interesting employees. Celebrating authentic personalities inside organizations may be one of the most underused marketing advantages available today.

The conversation then moves into the exploding trend of 90-second serialized dramas dominating short-form video platforms. What started as a niche format is quickly becoming a global phenomenon, reshaping storytelling and opening the door to entirely new forms of brand entertainment.

Winners and Losers

Joe highlights the creative marketing moves coming from Staples and why the brand may be onto something smart in a crowded retail environment. Robert, meanwhile, calls out what he believes was a strategic misstep from global advertising giant WPP.

Rants and Raves

Joe raves about a growing opportunity inspired by a recent article in The Wall Street Journal on the rise of subscription mail products and why creators should pay close attention to physical experiences in a digital world.

And in a rare twist, Robert offers praise for the research and insights coming from Gartner… something listeners may not have expected.

As always, Joe and Robert break down what it all means for marketers trying to build sustainable media brands in a world increasingly shaped by platforms, AI, and shifting audience behavior.

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose tackle one of the boldest statements in recent marketing memory. The CEO of Unilever says big brand advertising is dead. Is he right? Or is this a Trojan horse for something much bigger?

Big Brand Advertising: Dead or Disguised?

When the head of one of the largest consumer goods companies in the world questions traditional brand advertising, it’s not a throwaway comment. Joe and Robert unpack what’s really happening:

• Are we witnessing the collapse of mass brand-building?

• Or is this a pivot toward creator-led, performance-driven, and retail media strategies?

• Is “brand is dead” just cover for short-term earnings pressure?

Facebook’s Creator Monetization Shift

Next, the hosts examine Facebook and its evolving creator monetization programs.

Here’s the surprising part: most of the creators earning real money aren’t in the U.S. or Europe.

What does that signal?

• Is Facebook optimizing for lower-cost content markets?

• Is this about global growth or cheaper engagement?

• Does this open the door to more synthetic and AI-generated content?

Joe and Robert debate what this means for marketers investing in creator partnerships and for Western creators assuming they’re at the center of platform economics.

AI Actors, Hollywood, and Trademarking Yourself

A fascinating conversation between Matthew McConaughey and Timothée Chalamet sparks a larger discussion: what happens when AI enters the craft of acting?

Will we eventually see:

• Best AI Actor?

• Best Synthetic Film?

• Or entirely new creative categories?

Joe raises a bigger issue for marketers and creators: should you trademark your name, image, and likeness?

As AI-generated replicas improve, protecting your identity may become a business necessity rather than a vanity move.

Winners and Losers

Winner: The Creator Betting on Landline Phones

Joe highlights a surprising trend: a creator sells old-school landline phones.

Marketing Loser: U.S. Men’s Hockey

Robert explains why the United States men's national ice hockey team earns this week’s marketing “L.” Brand positioning, expectations, and execution all come under scrutiny.

Rants, Raves, and Heated Debate

Robert dives deep into Anthropic and its recent moves around AI safety. Is the company quietly shifting away from its core safety mission?

Then things get heated.

Joe and Robert spar over an article by Matt Shumer on the future of AI. Is exponential acceleration inevitable? Are we underestimating the timeline? Or overhyping the disruption?

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Companies like Meta and other social platforms are facing serious scrutiny over the effects of social media on mental health, teens, misinformation, and society at large. Lawmakers are circling. Hearings are happening. Headlines are dramatic.

But is this real regulatory momentum… or political theater?

Joe and Robert debate:

• Whether meaningful regulation is actually possible

• What history tells us about tech antitrust moments

• And what marketers should prepare for if something does change

Are we watching the beginning of a structural shift, or just another PR cycle?

OpenAI Buys OpenClaw

OpenAI makes another strategic move, acquiring OpenClaw.

Smart vertical integration or signs of pressure?

Joe and Robert explore:

• What this signals about OpenAI’s long-term positioning

• If this move strengthens the moat or exposes vulnerability

Desperate land grab or calculated chess move?

Apple Moves into Video. Too Late?

Apple continues expanding its footprint in video podcasts and entertainment. But in a world dominated by established streaming giants and creator-driven platforms, is Apple behind?

The discussion covers:

• Apple’s historical pattern of entering late and winning anyway

• Whether hardware advantage still matters

• If brand trust gives Apple an edge in a saturated market

• What this means for content creators and marketers

Is Apple playing the long game… or missing the moment?

Marketing Winners and Losers

Winners

Joe shares a win from Surfside and what “winning” looks like in Key West. Sometimes the lesson isn’t scale. It’s positioning, timing, and owning a moment.

Losers

Robert discusses the Ring backlash and how they just didn't read the room.

Rants and Raves

Robert’s Rant

The evolving role of the AI creator. Is the curator the new role?

Joe’s Rave

Differentiation is not louder messaging. It’s clearer identity. In a world drowning in synthetic sameness, the brands and creators who stand for something specific will win.

As always, Joe and Robert cut through the noise so you can focus on what matters.

Subscribe. Share. And don’t miss this one.

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, Joe and Robert break down one of the boldest marketing decisions the NFL has made in years and why it continues to pay off.

NFL + Bad Bunny: A Strategic Win

The NFL’s move to spotlight Bad Bunny wasn’t just a halftime performance decision. It was a strategic signal about where the league is headed as it expands globally and looks to connect with younger, more diverse audiences.

Joe and Robert explore whether this marks a broader repositioning of the NFL brand and what marketers can learn from a legacy organization willing to evolve in public. This isn’t about one performance. It’s about how institutions modernize without losing their core.

Super Bowl Ad Winners & Losers

The guys break down the biggest hits and misses from this year’s Super Bowl ad lineup.

Which brands actually created impact?
Who played it too safe?
Did AI-driven ads live up to the hype or feel automated and forgettable?

Some advertisers made bold cultural bets. Others blended into the background.

Spotify’s Big Earnings and the Hidden Opportunity

Spotify’s latest earnings report might signal something bigger than a financial rebound. Joe sees a potential opportunity for creators and marketers who understand the long-term value of owned audio audiences.

Is podcasting and direct subscription audio still undervalued?
Are marketers overlooking one of the most durable attention platforms available today?

If you care about building direct audience leverage, this segment matters.

Winners and Losers

Joe’s Winner: Markiplier’s Iron Lung
Markiplier’s direct-to-theaters success with Iron Lung shows what creator-led distribution can look like without traditional Hollywood gatekeepers. Is this a preview of the next decade of media?

Robert’s Loser: AI Ads at the Super Bowl
AI promised scale and personalization. On the biggest stage in advertising, many of those spots felt soulless and generic. Scale without taste is not a strategy.

Rants and Raves

Joe’s Rant: TikTok Privacy
Are creators and brands ignoring long-term privacy and platform risk for short-term reach?

Robert’s Commentary: The Overblown SaaS Apocalypse
Robert pushes back on the constant doom-and-gloom narrative around SaaS and tech. Is the so-called apocalypse real, or just another overreaction cycle?

Big Takeaway

Legacy institutions are adapting. Creators are bypassing gatekeepers. Platforms are redefining monetization.

The question for marketers is simple: Are you reacting to change, or positioning yourself to benefit from it?

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

It’s the episode you’ve been waiting for.

Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose bring together their favorite rants and raves in one fast-moving supercut that tackles the biggest questions facing marketers and creators right now.

Is print really making a comeback, or are we just nostalgic for a slower, more thoughtful era of media? Why does everyone seem so certain in a world that’s becoming more complex by the day? And is “thoughtful marketing” finally ready for its return after years of hacks, shortcuts, and algorithm chasing?

The guys also dig into a question every content team should be asking: Is content actually broken, or is the real problem your org chart?

Along the way, Joe and Robert explore what might be the next great opportunity for marketers and content entrepreneurs who are willing to zig while everyone else zags.

Big ideas. Sharp opinions. A few laughs. And plenty to argue about on your next walk or commute.

You don’t want to miss this one.

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

In this special episode, Joe and Robert answer all the questions from the This Old Marketing audience. 

How do backlink strategies (SEO) and citations (AEO) work together, and what unified content strategy can help brands earn both?

In the age of GEO, how should membership organizations decide what content to keep free versus behind a paywall, especially when balancing search visibility with exclusive expert value?

As AI takes over more execution, will small businesses and solopreneurs still need and pay for human marketing strategy, and how can independent consultants differentiate and stay relevant in an AI-first world?

Did the Netflix series about the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders measurably impact the team’s brand or game viewership, and is it a model for how entertainment content can elevate a sports franchise’s marketing?

Should marketers clearly separate “content marketing” (audience-building) from “sales enablement content” (purchase support), and does lumping them together lead to bad strategy and wrong KPIs?

If you were starting from zero today, with AI flooding every channel, what would you build first to create real audience trust and attention over the next five years, and what would you completely ignore that most marketers are still chasing?

Thanks to all of you for your questions and support.

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week on This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert unpack a trio of headlines that perfectly capture the optimism and overconfidence of the AI era.

First, Apple and Google announce a multi-year partnership on AI. Two of the most powerful companies on the planet, joining forces to shape the future of intelligence. What could possibly go wrong?

Then OpenAI confirms that advertising is coming to ChatGPT later this year. The honeymoon phase of AI is officially over, and the business model phase has arrived. Joe and Robert explore what ads inside conversational interfaces really mean for brands, creators, and trust.

Finally, Salesforce steps up to answer MrBeast’s call for the “most amazing Super Bowl ad ever” for Super Bowl 2026. When enterprise software meets YouTube spectacle, expectations get set very high. And history suggests that rarely ends quietly.

Marketing Winners:

• Dos Equis, for proving that great brand storytelling and humor still cut through, even in an AI-flooded content world.

• Breeze Airways, for smart positioning and customer-centric marketing in an industry that desperately needs both.

Rants and Raves:

• The continued rise of AI-generated music hitting the charts, raising uncomfortable questions about creativity, authorship, and what “human” even means in popular culture.

• A rave for Viktor Frankl’s Man’s Search for Meaning, and why its lessons about purpose, suffering, and responsibility feel more relevant now than ever in a world optimized for convenience and automation.

As always, the episode ends where This Old Marketing lives best, at the intersection of technology, media, and the timeless human need for meaning, trust, and something real to hold onto.

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

In this special episode of This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert tackle one of marketing’s favorite habits: declaring things dead.

Every year, marketers rush to pronounce entire channels, strategies, and ideas obsolete. But many of the things we keep writing off are not only alive, they’re quietly doing the hard work of building trust, relevance, and long-term value.

Joe and Robert break down what marketers think is dying (but isn’t), why these fundamentals continue to matter, and what actually deserves to be put out of its misery.

Things Marketers Think Are Dead (But Aren’t)

• The Website
  Why the website is still the center of gravity for trust, clarity, and audience ownership, especially as platforms become more volatile and AI-driven.

• Traditional PR and Communications
  How earned media, relationships, and credibility haven’t disappeared, they’ve become harder to fake and more valuable as synthetic content explodes.

• Purpose-Driven Marketing
  Why purpose didn’t die. Performative purpose did. Authentic values still matter, but only when they’re proven through action over time.

• In-Person Events
  The enduring power of physical connection, shared experiences, and real community in a world dominated by digital noise.

Things That Probably Should Be Dead

• Safe Marketing
  Why playing it safe is the fastest way to be ignored, and how clarity, conviction, and point of view beat neutrality every time.

• The Myth of Personalization
  After 25 years of trying to get personalization right, most marketing still confuses data with relevance. True one-to-one personalization at scale remains elusive, often resulting in content that feels generic, invasive, or hollow. The real opportunity isn’t more personalization, it’s better positioning and messages that resonate deeply without pretending to speak to everyone individually.

Coming Soon: Listener Questions Episode

In a few weeks, Joe and Robert will be recording a special listener Q&A episode, and they want to hear from you.

Have a marketing question you want answered on the show?
Submit your question in text or audio form at:
https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, Joe and Robert break down the latest signals in the economy, media, and marketing, from stabilizing job data and corporate tax incentives to AI’s growing influence on content, platforms, and creative work. They also dig into where responsibility lies in an AI-saturated world and which organizations are adapting well…or getting it wrong.

Key Topics Discussed

Economic Update: Jobs and Stability

Joe and Robert open the show with a look at recent U.S. economic data. After months of uncertainty, layoffs appear to have slowed, and job numbers are showing signs of stabilization. While not a return to boom times, the data suggests the labor market may be finding its footing heading into 2026.

Corporate Tax Incentives and 2026 Profits

The conversation turns to tax policy and its impact on business. Joe and Robert discuss how the permanent reduction of the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%, along with other incentives, is setting mid-sized and enterprise companies up for significantly higher profits in 2026. They explore what this means for cash flow, reinvestment, and corporate behavior moving forward.

Instagram, AI, and the Burden on Creators

Next up, Joe and Robert analyze comments from Adam Mosseri and Instagram around AI-generated content. Mosseri makes it clear that Instagram does not intend to fully police AI content, instead emphasizing the importance of human creativity and authenticity. Joe and Robert question whether platforms are abdicating responsibility and placing the full burden on brands and creators to stand out in an increasingly cluttered, AI-driven feed.

Final News: Uber’s Co-Creation Ad Strategy

In final news, the guys highlight Uber and its growing advertising business. Uber’s co-creation media tactics are viewed as a smart, forward-thinking approach to revenue generation. Joe and Robert agree that too many enterprises still underestimate marketing’s role as a direct revenue driver, not just a cost center.

Marketing Winners and Losers

Marketing Winner (Robert)

Equinox
Robert praises Equinox for its ad campaign that pokes fun at AI-generated content, using humor and human insight to cut through the noise and reinforce brand identity.

Marketing Loser (Joe)

Nebula Awards
Joe calls out the Nebula Awards for their new rules banning any use of generative AI in the creative process. While intended to protect writers, Joe argues the decision is short-sighted, unenforceable, and misunderstands how creative tools evolve.

Rants and Raves

• Robert’s Rant:
  Robert takes aim at Digiday and what he sees as an overly cozy fascination with Accenture, questioning the value and objectivity of that coverage.

• Joe’s Commentary:
  Joe closes with thoughts on the Corporation for Public Broadcasting winding down operations. He clarifies that PBS itself is not shutting down, but explains how the loss of federal funding disproportionately impacts rural and small-market stations, potentially reshaping public media into a more urban-centric system.

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose kick off this week’s episode by unpacking the TikTok “sale” and what actually happened behind the headlines. Was it really a sale? Why was a true divestiture nearly impossible? And what does the outcome tell us about platform risk, regulation, and the future of rented audiences.

From there, Joe and Robert shift into what they believe will be the most important marketing, content, and AI stories of 2026. Not predictions, but the conversations marketers will be having once the year is underway.

They dig into whether the long-awaited AI bubble ever actually bursts in marketing, how AI changes headcount and team structures, and what happens to the brand website when search and discovery are increasingly mediated by AI systems instead of humans.

The episode wraps with rants and raves. Robert rants about marketers’ obsession with declaring everything dead, while Joe rants about Denmark’s decision to shut down its postal service and what that signals for the future of physical letters and communication.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• What really happened with the TikTok deal and why it was never a traditional sale

• Why the AI “bubble” may never pop in marketing the way people expect

• How AI could lead to fewer marketing jobs, or more leverage for the right roles

• Why the role of the website is changing for brands and creators

• What Denmark ending postal service delivery says about the future of letters

Rants and raves:

• Robert’s rant: Marketers love predicting the death of everything

• Joe’s rant: Denmark shuts down postal service delivery and the slow disappearance of letters

Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. 

-------

This week's sponsor:

Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.

Unless you use HubSpot.

Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ 
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork